IKR? If you were really religious but you didn't know someone was gay, you'd treat them the same as a straight person. So why does just who you like determine that you're a sin against God. When I went to a Christian camp, I dealed with a lot of crud from my counselors because I brought a book that was about gay guys and clearly stated it within the cover flap. My bunkmate was an uppity female dog to me after that, talking about how those people are sick and dirty, a crime against God and don't deserve to exist. I don't think I ever talked to her again after that. Then my conselors were at least better cos we had to have one on one time with them, and I chose to talk about your sexuality and your religion. She was a lot better dealing with my beliefs, saying that there was a gay couple at her church and that they always got dealed a lot bs from other members.

I just totally agree with you. Everyone has a personal life, and you don't have a right to judge it because you're probably hiding a secret that everyone else would say is just as abd.

Oh yes. Completely and totally agreed. People have no right to dictate other peoples' personal lives like that.
I feel like screaming at people, "SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH AND STATE. THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION. EVER HEARD OF IT?!" because I find it ironic that a lot of people claim to be patriotic Americans but so blatantly ignore the Constitution like that. It actually cracks me up when it doesn't set my blood to boiling.

Oh my god.
I agree.
100% agree.

I think bans against gay marriage and all the problems gay people have to deal with in genearl are flat-out ridiculous. For one thing, whatever goes on between a man and a woman, or a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, is no one else's **** business. There are so many other things those people in this country could be devoting their time and energy to - meddling in a couple's personal affairs is not one of them, and it's shameful that people actually are doing so.

Prop 8 really saddened me, especially since I still remember when I was a little kid, walking in San Francisco, when we came along a line of gay couples waiting to be married at city hall. :[

That annoys me too. A lot, because my friend's parents are gay (Mom and mom), so people assume she is too, (Which she isn't) and people don't hang out with her. People who are like, "Oh her parents are gay" Gtfo sheesh.

YES LOSTY YES.
What also stops me from saying the pledge is the lines One nation under god, with liberty and justice for all I will never be able to say the end of that pledge.

Well I'd normally agree to this kind of stuff, but Americas founding is partly based on religion. Also, if you consider the fact that roughly three quarters of the people of modern developed western nations are, in fact, religious, would it not be healthy and a positive idea to create a more of a relationship between religion and government? Also, we have religious freedom to do what we want. And another, if two gay people want to be together in a state that doesn't allow Gay Marriage, isn't being together good enough? I mean What does one document have to do with happiness

I'd go as far as to say it's almost shameful that people actually go out of their way to make sure gay people don't have rights. Love is love, it doesn't matter whether a woman loves a man or another woman, and the same with men.

I never stand up to do the pledge. Ever. Sometimes people ask me why, and now I can point to this forum and say "That". XD'

GAY RIGHTS SHOULD BE LEGAL. EVERYWHERE. IF GAY PEOPLE CAN'T LOVE ANOTHER PERSON OF THE SAME SEX THEY WILL NEVER HAVE LOVE. Now, now, you can have love without getting married, but the people who make fun of gays for being different? Being the same is absolutely boring. Being gay isn't a choice so people shouldn't make fun of them. It is who they are and who they want to be. A lot of suicides are because they are made fun of for being gay, and it is not fair. Some people here are gay, (I only know two, and I don't know if they'd like me to say their names at the moment) and I really think that being gay is not a choice and there is nothing wrong with people loving someone of the same sex. Love is love. And love should always be approved if it's a gay relationship too..

Soundy: Same here. I never say the Pledge. Luckily, we don't do that in our school, lol.

Jayfeather: But there are legal benefits given to married people that gay people aren't allowed to get then.

In all honesty, Im fine with Gays being married, but this is a question of Morality, not Religion.

Jayfeather: What do you mean, it's a question of Morality and not Religion? Religion is totally mixed up in the whole situation. I just don't quite get what you mean, could you elaborate?

Gays want the right to marry because it helps make being gay a more common practice. When people love each other, its common for them to get married, so if they're married as well, it helps them fit in better. They also want the same rights as everyone else, cos like Sky said, love is love.

No one has the right to judge love *unless its stalkerish or abusive (EDWARD CULLEN, I AM JUDGING AND TALKING TO YOU)* because if one can't understand that love is unconditional and is something you can't change, then they dont truly love a soul

i dont say the pledge either for that reason...
i just dont see why it matters, if ur neighbor down the street gets married or not, you know what I mean?
Not letting gay people get married, isn't going to make them stop being gay....it's just going to make them feel more outcast, and cause more drama, until they get what they want.
Love is love, between a man and a women, a man and a man, a women and a man, or a women and a women. Love is an emotion,
and everrrryone is every state should be able to , if they frikin want to.
And i could go onnnn and onnnnnnn and onnnnn.

Its Morals, not just religions have them. Its against United States Morals for the death penalty, and we are not one religion. Its about the peoples morals. America is founded on the right to protest what you believe!

I agree about not doing the pledge, i'd not do it, but people would be like, "THE PLEDGE [my name] IT'S THE PLEDGE DO THE PLEDGE. Omg u didn't do the pledge, TEACHER, [insert my name here] didn't do the pledge! U RN'T PLEDGING YOUR "ALLEGIANCE" TO THE FLAAAAG" scuze me, I don't feel the need to stand up every day and recite a lie.

Remember how interracial marriage was considered a sin? This is like the same thing. Gay marriage will eventually be legal and accepted in a few decades. Just takes time and patience, and a lot of determination.

I'll admit, because I was raised in a Christian household with very conservative parents, the idea of being gay still seems strange sometimes. But nowhere in the Bible does it flat out say being gay (as in actually /loving/ someone of the same sex) is a sin. I've heard logical arguments from gay Christians about how those so-called anti-gay passages in the Bible don't mean jack.

Sex isn't all there is to love, so just because the homosexual way to "do it" is different from the straight way doesn't mean it's wrong. Having an emotional bond between two people is what love is about. That's all that matters.

Anyway, I'm done.

Jayfeather: But I've never heard a reason for opposing gay rights that ever came form anywhere but religion.

Kitten: Wow. I couldn't possibly have said it better myself. Love is love.

Brighty:” … and don’t deserve to exist?” My, how Christlike.

Jay: It’s also partly based on the occult. What happened to “all [men] are created equal?” Shouldn’t they have the same rights & privileges? And I’d dispute that ¾ number. Maybe in the USA, but not necessarily the western world. And why not include the Eastern world, too. Lots of religions there, too. That one document sure means a lot to a lot of religious people, why shouldn’t it to gay people, too? Would just being together be enough for the religious people you know? And are you assuming gays can’t be religious, too? Besides, that document gives the couple rights they don’t have without it.
How is it morality? Are you saying they are immoral?

Riskay: & allowing gays to marry isn’t going to hurt anyone, either.

I don’t pledge allegiance to anything.

Kitten has a good point about interracial marriage.

Cmoon: she was a fun one :DDDD. No. She wasn't. She was on the top bunk and she'd always start wailing on me if I was in the way for even a second. And there were like three bazillion ways to get down.

KC: Doesnt it say that its a sin for one man to lay with another? Cos thats what my counselor had been talking about during one on one time

_{I dislike religion. ;_;}

Squirrelly: You should check out the writings of Karl Marx - he once said "religion is the opium of the masses."

I still don't get what Jayfeather is trying to say XP'

I've been wondering what my teacher would do if someone didn't stand up for the pledge. As far as I know, most of the teachers don't mind whether you sit or stand during the pledge, but my history teacher always says "Stand up, stand up for the pledge!" I've been standing because I didn't really care and don't want to end up in an argument with the teacher (especially since I think this one is a pretty good teacher). But now I'm wondering...

I never say the pledge. I mutter the first verse of Minority instead!

"I pledge allegiance to the Underworld. One nation under Dog here of which I stand alone. A face in the crowd unsung against the mold. Without a doubt, singled out, the only way I know."

*picks up singing where Cloudy left off*
"I wanna be the the minority! I don't need your authority! Down with the moral majority 'cause I wanna be the minority!
Stepped out of the line, like a sheep runs from the herd. Marching out of time to my own beat now - the only way I know..."
...
Sorry, I love that song XD

Minou: You should ask him ^^

Minou: You can stand out of politeness for others beliefs, but not say it. I’m like that with the national anthem (which btw I think should be America the Beautiful instead). You’re probably smart to just basically ignore it.

Those are good lyrics.